SAINT-ETIENNE: Rugby Australia chief executive Phil Waugh has the unenviable job of picking up the pieces from the Wallabies' historic failure at the Rugby World Cup in France.
Barring a miracle, Eddie Jones' team will become the first Australian side in 10 World Cups to fail to progress from the pool stage.
Waugh, the former Wallabies captain, spoke to Wide World of Sports about the recriminations and Jones' future with the organisation.
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WWOS: Firstly, what were your emotions during that record loss as some fans left the stadium early? You are one of the most competitive Wallabies I have seen – just how much did that hurt?
Waugh: Everyone was absolutely gutted. Very disappointed and upset with how things panned out, We came into the tournament with so much hope and an aspiration to go right through to the end.
But clearly losing to Fiji and then the performance and the way it unfolded on Sunday night (Monday AEST) was really disappointing. Seeing people leave the stadium early and the disappointment talking to fans who have travelled so far, it's certainly very upsetting. To let so many Australians down who put so much trust and faith and belief behind the team – pretty disappointing.
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WWOS: What have those conversations and interactions with touring fans been like?
Waugh: Just overwhelming disappointment and the question of how did we end up so far off the pace? The preparation coming in, it wasn't ideal in terms of the win/loss ratio, but we had pretty good trajectory coming into the World Cup in terms of performances.
A narrow loss to the All Blacks in Dunedin and there was a lot of good momentum coming in. We had a couple of critical injuries but I thought the game against Georgia, the guys played pretty well. Got the bonus point, clinical in stages and a more disciplined effort.
But things certainly went downhill against Fiji. Fiji played well. We were ill disciplined, the penalty count was 18-7. It's such fine margins these days in world rugby at Test level. If you're slightly off you can get beaten badly and we saw that transpire over the last two weeks.
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WWOS: Have you spoken with Eddie and the team since Wales?
Waugh: Yeah I had a conversation with both and we saw some pretty raw emotion straight after the game. The guys were very upset with the way they performed and the weight that comes with putting on a national jersey with a coat of arms on your chest. They're pretty disappointed as to what they put out there.
The Federal Sports Minister (Anika Wells) was in the change rooms as well. You're representing your country and win, lose or draw, we're all behind our national teams. And while performances aren't what we'd like them to be, it's important to recognise they're doing everything they possibly can and they carry the weight of the country and all its supporters as they go out there.
WWOS: What can you tell us about your conversations with Eddie? One, around the performance and the campaign and two, with the reports around his interview with Japan?
Waugh: I have already come out around the Japan interview. He's answered it and said that there's nothing to it and I'm not going to get drawn into speculation or an investigation into who's talking with who. I need to take him on his word, which I will.
In terms of the performance, he's bitterly disappointed in the way things have eventuated against Fiji and Wales. He felt that the team had prepared well and were probably more advanced than what we saw on the field. So he's really upset and really disappointed with what transpired and the way that the guys went about things.
WWOS: There have been whispers that the board gave Eddie a free swing at the World Cup with a young team – that there was a safety net if things went wrong. Is that true?
Waugh: I don't think CEOs or boards should get involved in selection. The organisation brought Eddie in to win the World Cup in 2023. So while there's a lot of discussion around youth in 2025 (Lions tour) and 2027 (home World Cup), it was our intent to win the World Cup in 2023. And it still is. It wasn't around '25 or '27. It was about winning 2023. People probably thought that some players in the squad were more advanced and ready than what's proven to be.
But there's no excuses, there was no 'this is a squad that it's OK to lose and go out before the quarter-finals'. Our intent as an organisation was to win the 2023 Rugby World Cup. And we're all really disappointed about where we are right now.
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WWOS: Changing the head coach is one thing but Eddie then had to build a brand new support staff from scratch, which didn't have the same rugby experience or expertise as Dave Rennie's. Is it fair comment to say that backfired badly?
Waugh: Oh, look, hindsight is a wonderful thing. The trajectory, the winning percentage was not where Australian supporters expected us to be but clearly where we are today is not where we want to be either. Organisations make decisions and then you've got to put your full weight behind it. I guess you can speculate as to what would have been, had the changes not been made and would we have been where we are today? I don't think any of us really know the answer to that. But certainly where we are is very, very disappointing.
WWOS: Clearly there will be a review process after the World Cup. But as it stands, do you expect Eddie to carry on coaching the Wallabies and see out his contract?
Waugh: Yeah. Right here, right now, absolutely. We've got a World Cup to finish, then have the appropriate review and level of independence in that review and then assess that. After it's completed then work through what the next steps look like.
But I don't think it was ever going to be a fast turnaround (with the Wallabies) and there's a lot of speculation as to what conversations that he's (Jones) been having. But as we sit here right now, we've got a World Cup to finish and then we have a review of the campaign and then make the appropriate steps around the whole rugby system to, to try and get better performance cross the country.
WWOS: There would have been a review regardless of the World Cup results but is this now shaping as a much bigger piece of work?
Waugh: We are finalising what the parameters looks like. There's been a lot of reviews and reasonably recent reviews on the state of the game in Australian rugby. There's a lot of evidence that we need better alignment across high performance and the focus of many unions on community. There's been a lot of reviews over a long period of time that suggest that's the right direction to go in.
And we've certainly started those conversations with our many unions and Super clubs. So our next step is designing the parameters of how broad we go on the review and ensuring that our member unions and stakeholders are comfortable with that level of review.
Everyone across Australia, whether you're a rugby supporter or not, if you're just a sports supporter in Australia, you're disappointed with how the Wallabies have performed over the last couple of weeks.
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WWOS: The reality is that rugby is going to be a tough sell to disillusioned fans next year. The 2025 Lions tour and 2027 and 2029 home World Cups now look even more crucial, don't they, as a light at the end of the tunnel for the game?
Waugh: Yeah, absolutely. We need to reset the culture and change a culture that's been on the wrong side of the scoreboard for a long period of time. And that's not just Test matches, that's Super Rugby as well. Winning is a habit just like losing is a habit and we've been on the other side of that for a long period of time.
So we certainly need to change the trajectory of performances to get the right outcomes and get into that winning habit. Winning Super Rugby teams will lead to a more successful national teams.
We've got a long way to go and there's no-one more disappointed right now than myself, around where we're sitting in world rugby.
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